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Testimonial - Severe Depression Relieved

Spunt

Regular Member
#21
Christle;n24410 said:
Hi Everyone:
I already I have more than three weeks, taking sjw and a week after starting with sjw, I decided adding 5-hpt.
I am taking 900 mg of sjw, and from 100 to 200 mg of 5-htp how I feel is necessary, but I do not see a significant change, I have moderate depression and general anxiety, along with some features of OCD .
My question is the following, for those who know more about this than me, should I go up sjw dose? perhaps at 1200 mg? and see what happens? I just want to be sure, considering that I also take 5htp, I do not know if it will be appropriate. Would appreciate your help and advice, thanks in advance, have a nice day.:lookaround:
Hi Christie

It usually takes several weeks, 6-8, for SJW to really settle in and get things going. Be careful with higher doses. It may simply help to take things at different times of day. Taking 5 HTP at night, for instance, can be less effective for mood support than taking it in the morning or during the day. Besides 5 HTP there is also l-tyrosine which usually has to be taken along with 5 HTP after a few weeks of use. Everyone's system is different so it's hard to say "take this three times a day and you're set." Maybe you need a different brand, maybe you just need another month before it helps. I wouldn't go higher than 900 mg a day, especially after only 3 weeks of use.

I wish you the best and I hope you stick out it and find balance. :spin:

I
 

Christle

Regular Member
#22
Spunt;n24416 said:
Hi Christie

It usually takes several weeks, 6-8, for SJW to really settle in and get things going. Be careful with higher doses. It may simply help to take things at different times of day. Taking 5 HTP at night, for instance, can be less effective for mood support than taking it in the morning or during the day. Besides 5 HTP there is also l-tyrosine which usually has to be taken along with 5 HTP after a few weeks of use. Everyone's system is different so it's hard to say "take this three times a day and you're set." Maybe you need a different brand, maybe you just need another month before it helps. I wouldn't go higher than 900 mg a day, especially after only 3 weeks of use.

I wish you the best and I hope you stick out it and find balance. :spin:

I
Thanks so much:
I am already change the dose of sjw to 1200mg, not too much, I take it as well: two in the morning and two at night, about the 5htp took it one in the morning and one at night, I need to find out about another vitamin that you in recommended.

Maybe I'll start taking the sjw on the day and the 5htp in the afternoon or in the evening is perhaps best.
I've noticed something that worries me, before , I used to want to exit at night on weekends and see my friends, now I feel very tired all the time and I have no interest to go out to have fun, even causes me anxiety come out to have fun.:eek:
 

Christle

Regular Member
#23
St John's Wort
This is nature's best antidepressant (that we know of so far). Studies have shown it to be useful in mild to moderate depression and pretty useless in severe depression. It has two known active constituents. The first one is called hyperforin. Some consider it to be SJW's primary mode of its antidepressant effect. The second one is called hypericin. This is the tricky one. Hypericin causes photosensitivity and makes you tan more easily. It also makes your eyes more photosensitive, and a recent study as linked this to cataracts. That's why a good pair of sunglasses should be a must for anyone on SJW (a cheap pair of sunglasses will do more harm than good). Sunscreen is also recommended. There is an extract (SC27, New Chapter) of SJW that has almost no hypericin. However, some people need the hypericin, others don't. There is no clear way of telling without trying.

SAM-E
SAM-E, or S-Adenosyl Methionine. Is the final methyl donor at the end of the folate cycle. This system of the body is often referred to in general as "methylation." You will often see the terms under-methylation and over-methylation. Methylation happens when a "methyl donor" donates a methyl group to another molecule. SAM-E is the methyl donor at the end of the folate cycle that donates a methyl group to all sorts of molecules, including neurotransmitters. These methyl groups are need for the construction of the molecules, so it's quite important. SAM-E can have antidepressant and anxiolitic effects, but these very from person to person. SAM-E can also cause anxiety in some people, but this is rare. Homocysteine is the best indicator of methylation in the body. This can be tested in the blood and if homocysteine is high than something should be done (there are all kinds of threads about this, search). Histamine can also be an indicator, but its role isn't as clear cut. SAM-E can also help with bone issues.

L-Tyrosine
L-Tyrosine is an amino acid that is a precursor to dopamine. It goes L-Phenylalaine -> L-Tyrosine -> L-Dopa -> Dopamine. L-Phenylalline and L-Tyrosine are both found naturally in foods. Most LP gets converted to LT, so both can have a similar effect. Taking L-Tyrosine can raise dopamine, but for most people this wares off, so occasional use is probably better. Taking LT can also lower Serotonin levels, so if one were to use this constantly, it might be wise to take L-Tyrosine during the day and L-Tryptophan at night, as this is a precursor to serotonin. For amino acids to work, the need to be taken on an empty stomach, as amino acids compete with each other for absorption.

5-HTP
5-HTP is what your body makes from Tryptophan and is the precursor to serotonin. L-Tryptophan -> 5-HTP -> Serotonin. L-Tryptophan is the rate-limiting step for your body in the production of serotonin. The effect of bypassing this is unknown. What we do know however is that B6 is the catalyst for the conversion of 5-HTP to Serotonin. The problem is that part of this occurs in the gut, especially if you have had something containing B6. Since serotonin does not cross the blood-brain barrier, it stays in the bloodstream. Serotonin in the bloodstream can cause damage, and taking 5-HTP is generally not recommended (at least around here). Take Tryptophan instead. And also, just as taking Tyrosine can lower Serotonin, taking Tryptophan/5-HTP can lower dopamine. So taking tyrosine along with it in the day might be a good idea.

Hope this helps.

Hello, ​I find this in another forum, And I want to put this, on here as an information for everyone, I wonder if we can use some of this supplement together like 5 htp and L-tyrosine in addition with sjw ? like spunt said, somebody use all together?
Someone use Sam-E ?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
#24
Hi, so, I'm on 900mg of Perika SJW a day. I take it in 3 divided doses. I'm on my 4th week. So far, I have felt some calming of my nervous system. Some minor mood lifts at times, but nothing consistent or stable. Anyway experience some ups/down until they felt stable?

I was on high doses of Amino's before that included SAM-e, 5-htp, and tyrosine, etc.... I felt some relief after a few months but never stabilized me. And at the higher doses I felt over stimulated. I lowered the dose and didn't feel as stimulated but then my depression got worse. But, now I'm trying SJW hoping it will bring me relief.

I had bad reactions to SSRI's. The old school Remeron helped me sleep for a bit, and I had the "honeymoon effect" for a few days, but then it wore off. So, I'm really hoping SJW will work.

I'm taking some Tryptophan with my SJW. Now and then I may take a little Tyrosine or L-phenylalanine.

Hibbs02, what were your symptoms of severe depression? I think I had mild depression most of my lift, but it never caused too many problems, especially since I never knew I had it, but looking back I think I did. Plus I had some OCD, and GAD. Anyway, not sure you saw my other post, but 2 years ago I was hit was severe anxiety/panic (adrenalin rushes) insomnia, etc...Then I tried SSRI's and that's when my depression got BAD. Not the crying type, but I lost my emotions, no joy, couldn't look forward to anything, felt impending doom, hopeless, fear, etc....I think the anxiety/panic was mixed in with the depression which was a bad combo. The amino's got me out of the deep deep dark spot, but I still have some of these feelings each day, they come and go, and they seem worse with eating foods around lunch or just before dinner. I think I'm also dealing with some blood sugar/insulin instability. Anyway, at the really high doses of Amino's I had moments of feeling normal, feeling happy, colors were brighter, felt joy about things, but they would only be moments then they were gone. I've had a little of that when I first started SJW, not as much lately, so I'm hoping it's not going to make me worse. My anxiety is less... Did you experience any ups/downs while staring SJW? How long did it take for you to get stable? Do you still take SAM-e with it? I still have some left. I did take one dose of 200mg yesterday afternoon, and did feel a lift in mood. I believe Sam-e helps to create some of the neurotransmitters which is why it might help. Not sure......I'd only mix amino's and things like Sam-e with a doctors help, like a ND. Or, just be careful so you don't over do it....Too much neuros can cause problems. And since SJW is helping to raise serotonin and I think norepinephrine (is that right?), then you want to be carefull taking stuff that could increase those neuros like 5-htp, tryptophan, tyrosine, L-phenylalanine and possibly Sam-e.

5-htp also caused me to feel agitated, more anxiety, etc...My ND and others mentioned taking it with tyrosine would fix that. It might have, but at higher doses of each, I was over stimulated. I find that tryptophan seems to be a little better for me. Although at high doses I some times get tiny brain zap like feelings and a few sudden panic/butterfly feelings. But, I now just take divided doses off/on during the day.

Soccer Dude
 
#25
Hey there Soccer Dude. I currently take Sam-e and St John's. I never have NEVER had full relief from depression. It is a constant battle on some level however my current mental health challenges are nothing like they were before. Of course, part of that is that I have an extremely stressful job adding some waves into a relatively peaceful pond. I added the Sam-e after reading articles like this: http://www.webmd.com/depression/news/20100903/sam-e-may-boost-effects-of-antidepressants It basically states that Sam-e helps to potentiate SSRIs and St John's is essentially an SSRI.

"Relative to placebo, patients who received the SAMe showed a 105% higher response rate and a 121% higher remission rate.1 Said differently, add-on therapy with SAMe in patients with drug-resistant depression produced double the response rate AND remission rate compared with placebo within a 6-week period." http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2010...-Potent-Antidepressant-Effects-of-SAMe_01.htm

In addition, I do much better when I remember to take L-theanine. Again, my job is very stressful. I feel like the L-theanine is very calming.

"The results showed that L-Theanine intake resulted in a reduction in the heart rate (HR) and salivary immunoglobulin A (s-IgA) responses to an acute stress task relative to the placebo control condition. Moreover, analyses of heart rate variability indicated that the reductions in HR and s-IgA were likely attributable to an attenuation of sympathetic nervous activation. Thus, it was suggested that the oral intake of L-Theanine could cause anti-stress effects via the inhibition of cortical neuron excitation." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16930802

I know that it is a fairly expensive cocktail but my functioning seems relatively close to normal with these three working in conjunction in my particular situation. My depression was chronic and severe. I was suicidal for 20 years. Now, today is my day off from work. There are occasional intrusions of negativity that I can mostly bat away fairly easily and for the most part I'm cruising through today in a relatively positive manner.

So, not a doctor, but that is my experience and some things to look into.
 
#26
My doctor suggested I increase my dose of Perika SJW to 1200mg (300mg 4x per day). I started that last Friday. I'm hoping this isn't too much. I've been on 900mg for 6 weeks, and although it seemed to calm my nervous system, I didn't get much depression lift. Now that I'm on 1200mg for a few days, I seem to be sleeping better (not sure if it was the SJW increase or not) and maybe a bit of a mood boost, but I'm also taking a little l-carnitine which is giving me some mental energy and blood sugar stability.... I've read where another person didn't feel anything on 900mg, went to 1200mg and depression was gone. I know we are all different, so I'm hoping maybe 1200mg will be the sweet spot for me. Or, maybe I should have stayed on 900mg for a few more weeks to see what would happen before going on 1200mg?

How long should I give 1200mg to see if it will be effective before going to the next level? If it's like any SSRI, I've read it could take a few weeks or so to notice, but....

I do take a little tryptophan or 5-htp and/or tyrosine now and then to boost effectiveness (help to make neurotransmitters), and now and then pop 200mg of SAM-e. How much SAM-e are you taking?

I sure hope 1200mg will lift my depression. I know what it feels like when it really lifts....I think I've mentioned in my person post, that there was this transition coming off 4 weeks of Lexparo to Remeron and 7 days on Remeron (sleeping good again) which was 9 days off Lexapro, I could feel a chemical change happen in my brain and all of a sudden I felt totally 100% happy, calm, excited about life. But, that lasted like 1/2 a day, then I could feel the chemical change drop in my brain, and I didn't feel as good, but was content for a couple more days before having total relapse. I think I experienced the Honeymoon Effect of Remeron, or possibly the combo of Remeron and what was left of Lexapro in my system... (I went off Lexapro because it made me depression MUCH worse but coming off it made me feel better temporarily) I can't explain what really happened that 100% feel good day, but it happened one other time when I re-tried Lexapro for 4 weeks while still on Remeron, went off Lexapro and felt GREAT although I did have some intense anxiety, but it was tolerable and I was happy. That lasted only a couple of days as I also went of Remeron and crashed and felt terrible. So, I know what it feels like to get to that sweet spot, and I'm just hoping SJW will take me there. :)

Soccer
 
#27
Sounds like you've been on SJW for a while. Any issues with foods high in tyramine? For me, I don't drink wine or beer, I don't do dairy, but I might have some pepperoni at times, although I haven't tried it since starting SJW. I'm a little worried of any reactions I might get if I did. Thanks....
 
#28
Soccer Dude said:
My doctor suggested I increase my dose of Perika SJW to 1200mg (300mg 4x per day). I started that last Friday. I'm hoping this isn't too much. I've been on 900mg for 6 weeks, and although it seemed to calm my nervous system, I didn't get much depression lift. Now that I'm on 1200mg for a few days, I seem to be sleeping better (not sure if it was the SJW increase or not) and maybe a bit of a mood boost, but I'm also taking a little l-carnitine which is giving me some mental energy and blood sugar stability.... I've read where another person didn't feel anything on 900mg, went to 1200mg and depression was gone. I know we are all different, so I'm hoping maybe 1200mg will be the sweet spot for me. Or, maybe I should have stayed on 900mg for a few more weeks to see what would happen before going on 1200mg?

How long should I give 1200mg to see if it will be effective before going to the next level? If it's like any SSRI, I've read it could take a few weeks or so to notice, but....

I do take a little tryptophan or 5-htp and/or tyrosine now and then to boost effectiveness (help to make neurotransmitters), and now and then pop 200mg of SAM-e. How much SAM-e are you taking?

I sure hope 1200mg will lift my depression. I know what it feels like when it really lifts....I think I've mentioned in my person post, that there was this transition coming off 4 weeks of Lexparo to Remeron and 7 days on Remeron (sleeping good again) which was 9 days off Lexapro, I could feel a chemical change happen in my brain and all of a sudden I felt totally 100% happy, calm, excited about life. But, that lasted like 1/2 a day, then I could feel the chemical change drop in my brain, and I didn't feel as good, but was content for a couple more days before having total relapse. I think I experienced the Honeymoon Effect of Remeron, or possibly the combo of Remeron and what was left of Lexapro in my system... (I went off Lexapro because it made me depression MUCH worse but coming off it made me feel better temporarily) I can't explain what really happened that 100% feel good day, but it happened one other time when I re-tried Lexapro for 4 weeks while still on Remeron, went off Lexapro and felt GREAT although I did have some intense anxiety, but it was tolerable and I was happy. That lasted only a couple of days as I also went of Remeron and crashed and felt terrible. So, I know what it feels like to get to that sweet spot, and I'm just hoping SJW will take me there. :)

Soccer
As you are under a doctor's care I would recommend following the doctors recommendations. The early posts discussed studies regarding higher than 900mg St. John's Wort and effectiveness. I would argue as you are seeing positive benefits to stay the course and follow doctors orders. Also, keep in mind that part of the recovery process is working on correcting mental habits as you gain relief from negative mental health symptoms. At this juncture, as you are seeing positive results, you might work on trying to let go some of the anxiety and obsessing over your circumstance and work on enjoying your life. My experience is that even when your depression is chemically induced there is still a great deal of work to be done with regards to mental hygiene -- bad habits picked up under the influence of the depression. If anxiety is one of your issues then as you begin to see relief then actively working to improve purposely is important. Good luck and God bless.
 
#29
Soccer Dude said:
My doctor suggested I increase my dose of Perika SJW to 1200mg (300mg 4x per day). I started that last Friday. I'm hoping this isn't too much. I've been on 900mg for 6 weeks, and although it seemed to calm my nervous system, I didn't get much depression lift. Now that I'm on 1200mg for a few days, I seem to be sleeping better (not sure if it was the SJW increase or not) and maybe a bit of a mood boost, but I'm also taking a little l-carnitine which is giving me some mental energy and blood sugar stability.... I've read where another person didn't feel anything on 900mg, went to 1200mg and depression was gone. I know we are all different, so I'm hoping maybe 1200mg will be the sweet spot for me. Or, maybe I should have stayed on 900mg for a few more weeks to see what would happen before going on 1200mg?

How long should I give 1200mg to see if it will be effective before going to the next level? If it's like any SSRI, I've read it could take a few weeks or so to notice, but....

I do take a little tryptophan or 5-htp and/or tyrosine now and then to boost effectiveness (help to make neurotransmitters), and now and then pop 200mg of SAM-e. How much SAM-e are you taking?

I sure hope 1200mg will lift my depression. I know what it feels like when it really lifts....I think I've mentioned in my person post, that there was this transition coming off 4 weeks of Lexparo to Remeron and 7 days on Remeron (sleeping good again) which was 9 days off Lexapro, I could feel a chemical change happen in my brain and all of a sudden I felt totally 100% happy, calm, excited about life. But, that lasted like 1/2 a day, then I could feel the chemical change drop in my brain, and I didn't feel as good, but was content for a couple more days before having total relapse. I think I experienced the Honeymoon Effect of Remeron, or possibly the combo of Remeron and what was left of Lexapro in my system... (I went off Lexapro because it made me depression MUCH worse but coming off it made me feel better temporarily) I can't explain what really happened that 100% feel good day, but it happened one other time when I re-tried Lexapro for 4 weeks while still on Remeron, went off Lexapro and felt GREAT although I did have some intense anxiety, but it was tolerable and I was happy. That lasted only a couple of days as I also went of Remeron and crashed and felt terrible. So, I know what it feels like to get to that sweet spot, and I'm just hoping SJW will take me there. :)

Soccer
I am under a doctors care, although I started SJW on my own, but two of my ND's are okay with it. One of them is helping me with it, although not sure they have a lot of experience with prescribing SJW, etc... They have lots of experience with Amino Acid therapy which I was on, but didn't get the job done....Anyway, I'm on 1200mg now and have seem some marginal improvements so far it seems. Although I felt great this morning, then tanked about 11:30am before lunch. Not sure if it was blood sugar or what, but my mood dropped and felt panicky. Now I feel blah and like I drank 20 cups of coffee. Oh well... not sure what that is all about...I do get hypoglycemic symptoms and have had reactive hypoglycemia but...most of the time when I check my blood sugars they are within range, unless of course my body already counterbalanced with adrenaline hence the reason why I feel so blah. Anyway, I do agree with you 100% about mental hygiene, and working on enjoying life. These past 2 years I had SEVERE anxiety/panic, then depression, and with it severe insomnia...So, my poor body, and mind had been hit hard.... And I tend to keep reliving some of the feelings I had when I was at my worst which I don't know if it's my own mind going there out of fear of if it's a drop in brain chemicals or what.....It's a struggle, but important to stay focused on positive things, and ignore the bad....It's getting a bit easier but I still have moments of feeling panic/fear, etc....Anyway, I appreciate the response!
 
#30
Did you happen to have any side effects when starting or increasing your dose of SJW? I didn't think I had any when I started at 900mg, but several days into 1200mg, my insomnia (which I already had) is a bit worse, and I feel a little more anxious... I know SSRI's can cause anxiety as a side effect when you first start or increase a dose, so this may be the same thing...It's not bad, but it does seem like it might be making me feel a bit on edge...
 
#31
hibbs02 said:
I've lowered my dosage

Howdy,

I just thought that I would share a personal experience which illustrates a point Kelly has made in another thread on the forum.

For a few weeks I was feeling worse and for a while figured that I was just stressed and tired. Nothing like it used to be, mind you, but still less than my best. By the end I had begun to wonder if I had a bad batch of SJW and looking forward to when the bottle ran out so I would get a new batch.

It turned out I missed my morning dose of 900mg a couple of days and upped my night time dosage to 1200mg to somewhat compensate. I then returned to my normal dosage of 1800mg split between morning and night.

It occurred to me that I had felt better on the lower dosage and was feeling worse back on the higher dosage.

So, for the last week I've been taking 1200mg at night and noticed that I my symptoms are back to what they used to be when I started on 1800mg.

I just wanted to reiterate Kelly's point that if you start to feel the effects of SJW wane to try cutting back on your dosage. It has certainly worked for me.

I thought this was especially important to bring up since this thread has a certain focus on higher dosage levels for severe depression. It may be that over time you need to cut back to maintain optimum effectiveness.

Thanks to Kelly for bringing that to my attention. :glasses:

---------------------------------------

Edited as I just noticed that my first post in this thread was about one year ago so this change in my dosage is pretty much lined up with my one year anniversary with SJW.
Hi, well I started on 900mg (300mg x 3), then a week ago went to 1200mg...But now the last couple of days I've felt different, kinda in a negative way, feeling more low I think....Not sure if it's the increased dose or not. I know you said you felt great at 1800mg but then after awhile the lower dose felt better? How long were you at the higher dose of 1800mg? How long did that take to make you feel really good? I'm not sure if I should stick it out at 1200mg a little longer, or if I should go back to 900mg and stay there a awhile I was at 900mg for 6 weeks, then currently 1 week at 1200mg. I some times take a little tryptophan and now and then SAM-e, but i think SAM-e might stimulate me too much.

You also mentioned that taking your dose twice per day rather than spreading it out worked best? I wonder why that is? I was taking mine in 3 separate doses, and now 4 separate doses. I wonder if I should take 2 in the AM, and 2 at lunch, or 2 am 2 pm, or.....I guess it's trial and error.

Thank you,
Soccer
 
#32
hibbs02 said:
Here are some studies

What, can't you use Google? :talkface: I'm the OP and still having life changing effects. I'll share what little I know.

Here are a few links discussing such studies:

http://www.worldwidehealthcenter.net/articles-228.html

This is the MD-written article that first alerted me to the possibility that the 900mg dose I was taking wasn't necessarily the optimum dosage considering the severity of my depression. Basically, it is a criticism of some of the studies, and resulting articles, regarding SJW. Here is the nut graph that convinced me:

"There is, in fact, one published study using SJW in severe depression. Dr. Ernst-Ulrich Vorbach and colleagues in Germany conducted a multi-center study with 209 severely depressed patients, of whom 38 were hospitalized at the time.3 They were given 1800 mg daily, versus Shelton's 900 mg for 4 weeks, increasing to 1200 mg if no response, and compared it to imipramine, a tricyclic antidepressant. While the results in the two groups were similar, the side effects in the SJW group, despite the high dose, were far lower.

So, SJW may, after all, be useful for severe depression, given in the right dose. Can you imagine a Pfizer study that gives the patients a half dose of Zoloft, then concludes that their product was ineffective?"

And here is a link with a more detailed discussion of that particular study:

http://pb.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/24/6/232

A recent randomised, double-blind six-week study compared 1800 mg daily of a special extract of St John's Wort called LI160 with 150 mg daily of imipramine (Vorbach et al, 1997). The trial involved 209 patients, 107 received LI160 and 102 received imipramine. There were no significant differences between the two groups. Every patient in the trial had an ICD-10 F 33.2 diagnosis (severe episode of major depression, recurrent without psychotic symptoms; World Health Organization, 1992). Patients did not receive any other medication except chloral hydrate for insomnia, they were also allowed to continue taking lithium.


The HAM-D, the CGI and the Von Zerssen Depression Scale (VZD; Zerssen et al, 1974) were taken at Days -3, 0, 7, 14, 28 and 42 to measure depressive symptoms. In the comparison between treatments Vorbach et al assumed equivalent efficacy if the difference in the results was within a 25% deviation (i.e. they were within 25% of each other). After six weeks the HAM-D score for the patients taking LI160 had dropped from 25.3 to 14.4. In the imipramine group the score had decreased from 26.1 to 13.4. This result and the changes in the CGI and VZD scales were not statistically equivalent within the 25% deviation interval. In all cases there were greater improvements in the imipramine group.
The results were analysed to identify the number of patients in each group who showed a 50% and 33% reduction in the total HAM-D score. In the LI160 group there were 35.3% and 57.9% responders respectively; this compared with 41.2% and 62.7% response rates in the imipramine group. These results were statistically equivalent within the 25% deviation interval.

Most studies don't use 1800mg at the start. At most they wind up being something like 6-8 week studies and 2-4 weeks in they up the dosage to 1800 if the lower dose is ineffective. Here is an example:

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/330/7490/503

Objective To investigate the efficacy of hypericum extract WS 5570 (St John's wort) compared with paroxetine in patients with moderate to severe major depression. Design Randomised double blind, double dummy, reference controlled, multicentre non-inferiority trial.
Setting 21 psychiatric primary care practices in Germany.
Participants 251 adult outpatients with acute major depression with total score
22 on the 17 item Hamilton depression scale.
Interventions 900 mg/day hypericum extract WS 5570 three times a day or 20 mg paroxetine once a day for six weeks. In initial non-responders doses were increased to 1800 mg/day hypericum or 40 mg/day paroxetine after two weeks.
Main outcome measures Change in score on Hamilton depression scale from baseline to day 42 (primary outcome). Secondary measures were change in scores on Montgomery-?sberg depression rating scale, clinical global impressions, and Beck depression inventory.
Results The Hamilton depression total score decreased by mean 14.4 (SD 8.8) points, corresponding to 56.6% (SD 34.3%) of the baseline value, in the hypericum group and by 11.4 (SD 8.6) points (44.8% (SD 33.5%) of baseline value) in the paroxetine group (intention to treat analysis; similar results were observed in the per protocol analysis).

----------------------------------------------------

My personal experience is that 900mg (for me) is helpful but not terribly effective. 1800mg changed my life.

I'm not a doctor. My point was that if your depression is severe, or merely if you have some minor positive effects but still experience symptoms, then consider upping your dosage and see if your experience mirrors mine.

I would never suggest everyone start at 1800mg. I would recommend giveing SJW a good 6 week trial at 900mg and then start upping dosage by 300mg every week or two until you MAX at 1800mg. Track your effects.

You may experience an inverted U of effectiveness where you move up your dosage and experience more relief then move up more and start having less positive effects. At that point you need to back off to where you had the best outcome.

Keep in mind that even if your depression is relieved you are still going to have lots of bad mental habits left over from the long years of depression that need to be overcome. One of the upsides of SJW is that you have a much easier time fighting, and winning, such battles.

But, if your depression is as severe as mine was, and you are desperate to see if SJW was for you before moving on to SAM-E, then I can't pooh-pooh starting at 1800mg for six weeks and checking the effects.

Note, I said severe depression (long term) not the "blues." ;)
What brand of SJW do you use? I'm using Perika, which I hear is stronger than most due to it's WS 5570 standardize extract of Hyperforin...So I just wonder if 900mg is strong enough for Perika, and anything higher might be over doing it? I think I'm going back to 900mg. 1200mg seems to be making me feel ill and more depressed. Trial and error I guess....
 
#33
okieblonde said:
I am wondering if I should try upping my dosage. SJW has worked wonderful for me at 900 mg. My depression is totally gone. I still have issues with motivation though, not motivation to do the things I like, but motivation to do the things I don't like, but know they need to be done (cleaning house, getting work done etc.)

Any advice?
Hi Okieblonde, I know this post is old, but did you stay at 900mg? Does it still work for you? how long did it take at 900mg? I was on 900mg for 6 weeks, then went to 1200mg, but then after several days started feeling ill, and more depressed...I'm thinking of going back down to 900mg and wait it out....I'm using Perika brand SJW. thanks.
 
#34
hibbs02 said:
I just logged in to update my progress in this thread and noticed I had a PM from last year. I do apologize PM'er that I didn't get the question earlier. I will address it later in this post.

Currently I am on 900 mg a day and doing very well. Thank God for St. John's Wort! I spent some time at 1200mg and decided to give 900mg a try.

I am very happy that I was able to start at the 1800mg and get relief but after almost a year I was able to reduce my dosage and still maintain (or get back) my mental gains.

The PMer wrote:

"I saw your posts, stating that when you first started using St. John's wort, 900 mg per day did not work for you, but 1,800 mg did work for you. My question is this: Once you upped the dosage to 1,800 mg per day, how soon did you see a difference (a few days, one week, six weeks, etc...).
I have been on SJW for about 5 - 6 weeks now, but I was only taking 300 mg per day for the first month. I have been on 900 mg per day for about 10 days now. I don't feel any differerence yet (still feel depressed). I was told by soneone on this forum that I should give the 900 mg per day a full six weeks before deciding what to do next. I will most likely do that, but I wanted to get your opinion on how soon you saw a difference once you increased your dosage."

I am not a doctor or psychiatrist, but I was one of those lucky people who felt the effects of SJW immediately (at high dosage.) I literally felt like a different person within days.

So, I can't tell you what to do. You might consider -- if you are severely depressed, if you have tried 900mg for some real period of time and felt little to no relief -- upping the dosage to 1800 mg.

With my dosages I was lucky that I was able to get a dose that helped me and could feel something wacky and not right going on that signalled me. I got lucky that I messed up my dosage and was able to notice that I needed to drop my dosage

I am not a doctor I am only sharing my experiences. I don't really want to give "advice" because all I know is what happened with me and I have outlined my experiences here in the hope that it might help someone else out there in pain.

God bless and good luck. Don't give up!
Hi Hibbs02,

Well, I had tried 1200mg a while back, late Sept, early October, but thought It was making me feel worse, maybe it was temporary dose adjustment side effects, not sure. I decided to go back to 900mg and stay there a while longer, well, after 11 weeks, 900mg just isn't cutting it. I decided to try 1200mg again. I'm into it several days, and so far I seem to be doing okay...

I just felt I needed a stronger dose to get an effect. My anxiety/panic is very low over all, but I still have depression, just a lack of emotions, (happy, joy, excited, etc...). I am motivated to want to do things....But that's about it. So, I'm hoping 1200mg might be the sweet spot, but might need to give it a couple of weeks at that dose instead of just one.

I mentioned in another post that I'm testing a product called "Serotonin Dopamine Liquescence" by Professional Complementary Health Formulas. You can order on line at Pureformulas.com My ND suggested it as an add-on. It seems to be helping. I've also added 5mg of Lithium Orotate (over the counter). And it seems to have leveled my moods some... Like I'm having less dips of impending doom/despair feelings. Just feel more leveled. not that I'm bi-polar, but I think due to all the severe anxiety/panic, and going on/off so many meds (SSRI's,) that my brain is not stable and Lithium Orotate is helping. Also I've read that Lithium helps to block glutamate receptors or something, which in my case might be helpful as I've been tested as having high glutamate levels. Gaba seems to help some also. Lithium Orotate did seems to make me sleepy, so I'm taking it before bed to see if it helps me sleep.

I'm going to see a ND this week who is going to help me with my methylation pathway (genetics) test results. We'll see how she wants to handle my supplement regiment. :)

soccer
 
#35
hibbs02 said:
I've lowered my dosage

Howdy,

I just thought that I would share a personal experience which illustrates a point Kelly has made in another thread on the forum.

For a few weeks I was feeling worse and for a while figured that I was just stressed and tired. Nothing like it used to be, mind you, but still less than my best. By the end I had begun to wonder if I had a bad batch of SJW and looking forward to when the bottle ran out so I would get a new batch.

It turned out I missed my morning dose of 900mg a couple of days and upped my night time dosage to 1200mg to somewhat compensate. I then returned to my normal dosage of 1800mg split between morning and night.

It occurred to me that I had felt better on the lower dosage and was feeling worse back on the higher dosage.

So, for the last week I've been taking 1200mg at night and noticed that I my symptoms are back to what they used to be when I started on 1800mg.

I just wanted to reiterate Kelly's point that if you start to feel the effects of SJW wane to try cutting back on your dosage. It has certainly worked for me.

I thought this was especially important to bring up since this thread has a certain focus on higher dosage levels for severe depression. It may be that over time you need to cut back to maintain optimum effectiveness.

Thanks to Kelly for bringing that to my attention. :glasses:

---------------------------------------

Edited as I just noticed that my first post in this thread was about one year ago so this change in my dosage is pretty much lined up with my one year anniversary with SJW.
Hi Hibbs02,

I've been on SJW for about 4+ months now. Still not feeling normal. My anxiety is lower, my depression or low moods not feeling happy is still around. I did find out my DHEA levels were on the low side so I'm taking low doses of DHEA which seems to be helping, but I just don't feel joy/happy excited about this. I do enjoy some things and can laugh at times, but...It doesn't feel normal yet. I'm still on 1200mg Perika SJW. Trying to figure out if I need 1500mg or 1800mg. rrrrg. Also, do you know if SJW effects both Serotonin and Norepinephrine? I've heard that Norepinephrine takes longer to build up... Anyway...I still have bad insomnia at times, but I do feel better than I did months ago...
 
#36
hibbs02 said:
I've lowered my dosage

Howdy,

I just thought that I would share a personal experience which illustrates a point Kelly has made in another thread on the forum.

For a few weeks I was feeling worse and for a while figured that I was just stressed and tired. Nothing like it used to be, mind you, but still less than my best. By the end I had begun to wonder if I had a bad batch of SJW and looking forward to when the bottle ran out so I would get a new batch.

It turned out I missed my morning dose of 900mg a couple of days and upped my night time dosage to 1200mg to somewhat compensate. I then returned to my normal dosage of 1800mg split between morning and night.

It occurred to me that I had felt better on the lower dosage and was feeling worse back on the higher dosage.

So, for the last week I've been taking 1200mg at night and noticed that I my symptoms are back to what they used to be when I started on 1800mg.

I just wanted to reiterate Kelly's point that if you start to feel the effects of SJW wane to try cutting back on your dosage. It has certainly worked for me.

I thought this was especially important to bring up since this thread has a certain focus on higher dosage levels for severe depression. It may be that over time you need to cut back to maintain optimum effectiveness.

Thanks to Kelly for bringing that to my attention. :glasses:

---------------------------------------

Edited as I just noticed that my first post in this thread was about one year ago so this change in my dosage is pretty much lined up with my one year anniversary with SJW.
Hi Hibbs02,

So, how did you know that you weren't feeling as good on 1800mg? I'm still at 1200mg, and at times I seem to have some mild symptoms of Serotonin Syndrome. I wonder if 1200mg is too much for me now? I still have some depression, but I think it's from my continued Insomnia and mild adrenal fatigue. I thought about going back to 900mg to see how I feel, just don't want to feel worse if I did....Trial and error i guess.. Thanks.