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5HTP Absolutely stunned

Discussion in '5-HTP, CBD, CEBT Therapy, SAM-e, Rhodiola, books' started by Quest, Sep 12, 2006.

  1. Diana_Elaine

    Diana_Elaine New Member

    I'm right down to the wire on this one: Joe has appt. today at 3:30 with a new pdoc, if he cancels, he can no longer get in there, as this will be the second appt. he's had, he canceled the first one.

    He wants this to stop, by any method possible ... even if it's an AD. But he and I know, that's STILL a gamble, as to if it will work for him, or help him ... and it takes time to know that, something he seems not to have much of right now, at least in his mind. :(

    I could take him to the ER, but we both know ... if there's no room on that hospital's psych floor, they will send him to CPEP (an emergency psych evaluation clinic), where you wait at LEAST 8 hours to be seen! I actually think that is CRAZY and unacceptable, to make those who are SO sick and some that are suicidal or manic, to sit there that long. The first time we went, we were there a total of 12 hours, 10 of those, were waiting in the VERY TINY waiting room.

    Joe tells me that he will NOT sit there like that again, waiting. So if there's no room at the hospital we go to, and they send him to CPEP, he'll tell them he's not suicidal and leave. I really can't blame him, but then ... I have no choice but to drive him back home ... and then where are we? :(

    Also ... forgot to mention, he has to be back in Seattle by the first week of September, or he loses his apartment and everything in it! I have no way to drive there to clean it out ... I'm in N.Y. state and on SSI ... so no money for that.

    I feel there is no way out of this mess ... and am starting to lose my own strength and hope.
     
  2. Diana_Elaine

    Diana_Elaine New Member

    So ... Joe decided to go see the pdoc ... and she gave him Pexeva, which is what they give those who use to take Paxil and it pooped out on them. All I know is, it BETTER work! He will start tomorrow .. do you guys think that's safe, after taking a 5-htp today? He only took 50mg this morning.

    Looks like we won't be going natural for now, since this is what Joe wants ... maybe one day he can try again, I hope so.... but if he has to stay on meds, to function, and be happy, that's what I want for him, and that's what's important.

    He'll continue the fish oil I'm sure, also. Thank you all for your concern and support.
     
  3. Quest

    Quest Regular Member

    You are NOT a bad mom. You are doing your best to find help. First of all I want to say that it is not the end of the world when someone does have to rely on an SSRI. Of course we all read about side effects and possible alternatives...but you have to do what you have to do to be able to cope in life. I know plenty of people on SSRIs...as well as others on alternatives. BOTH groups have positives and negatives. My own mother for example is on Paxil..has been for at least 10 years. She did briefly try and come off...but it hurt her more than helped. Alternatives are very hard to adjust to sometimes once you have had a prescription. Sometimes it is too hard of a battle. For my mom..thats okay. And the Paxil is still working magic for her. As for myself, I had the option to try Paxil..but I did not...opting to try a natural approach first. Maybe it is easier that way. Paxil, as other meds, do have side effects, but you ask yourself..is it worth it? If you live a full and better quality of life..yes it is. For others, it is a long battle to find the right alternative. And as I have said...the alternatives are not regulated and can be quite dangerous as well. When one is in a bad way (and boy do i remember this) it is even harder to have the patience to experiment with so many alternatives. That is why Ive studied them endlessly. As for what to use as an alternative? You see, its complicated..there are those with adrenal stress, a shortage of dopamine, serotonin...even adrenaline. Depending on what one lacks...that is where the answer may lie. There are tests your doctor can order to tell you...and you can use these to help in your decision with an SSRI OR an alternative. (Look up Integrative Psychiatry on Google if u are interested..it explains about ordering tests, health insurance etc) Let us know how everything turns out. I SO understand the emotional as well as physical pain this causes your son AND your family. Hugs
     
  4. Raging_Hangover

    Raging_Hangover Regular Member

    Diana_Elaine,

    No parent with good intentions should feel guilty. You are trying to do the best with what you can. That is what everyone does on here.

    AD's may be the route to stay for now, but I think it would be a terrible waste not to see him checking into his Nutrition, Vitamins and Minerals when he stablize out a little. The Herbals can wait for now.

    It is all his choice, but while on AD's certain Nutrition adjustments can be made, as well as Vitamins/Minerals/SOME Aminos taken, and allowed to build up.

    First, I have no idea the dose (or type) he took but Magnesium Citrate at around 450-600mg/Day can truly help over time and would not give up on it yet. Just because it hasn't worked miracles in a few weeks does not mean it won't. If it is very depleted it takes months to build up. MANY forms are very poorly absorbed Citrate seems best, then Taurate, Glycinate and Chloride. The rest seems to be far less effective and some useless. The TYPE of Magnesium AND amount per day is crucial.

    Second, Niacinamide (In this form only) for a few weeks can help. Around 500mg/Per Day, then once every 2-3 days.

    Third, I'm not sure why GABA is recommended before this (as, unless it is in the form PharmaGABA it does poorly crossing the Blood-Brain Barrier), but TAURINE is my calm amino of choice (reduces anxiety, promotes sleep, many other great effects). Abut 500mg-1000mg/Evening for a few weeks (to start to see effects). This can be very effective to many people with Anxiety. Look into possible interactions with AD's, although I do not recall ever reading any. Take caution if he has low blood pressure, as it can lower blood pressure a bit (not dangerous to normal BP)

    Forth, Diet. Sugar, Gluten and Dairy. EVEN IF HE IS NOT CELIAC can cause serious issues for some people including depression and anxiety. How are his eating habits? Any Gastrointestinal troubles - Bloating/Stomach Aches/Lousy Bowel Movements?

    Fifth, Avoid supplements that can CAUSE Anxiety.
    Vitamin B12, Folic Acid, Calcium and Fish Oil are the top problem starters I see.
    Multi-B Vitamins
    can seriously start trouble for some people, I personally would be extra careful on this one.
    The Amino Acids Tyrosine, Phenylalanine can cause problems for Anxiety. MSG and Aspartame in food can also be horrible.


    Finally, the book recommended by Quest called 'The Mood Cure' is great. I support it as well, and some of what I have written is also in that book and books like it. Testing is definitely something worth the time, when you have the time and money.

    Let us know how it all goes,
    Take Care,
    RH
     
  5. Kokas

    Kokas New Member

  6. langers

    langers New Member

    Hi guys.

    Just a quick one. Is it okay to take Taurinet with 5-HTP?

    Thanks.
     
  7. Diana_Elaine

    Diana_Elaine New Member

    Thank you all SO much!

    Just wanted to thank you all so much, for your kindness and patience .... and all the information provided.

    Joe is staying in a motel for 2 nights, so I could take a break, both mental and physical ... I was ready to collapse. I saw him for 30 minutes today, to make sure he was safe. He's just as bad, if not worse ... of course, only on the AD for 3 days, but he's in so much pain, that every day is horrid. The ativan isn't working much either.

    I feel SO bad for him ... and yet he wants to book a flight home next week. My mind is so confused, I'm scared to let him go ... but he doesn't want to go into the hospital.

    I looked into L-glutathione today ... sounds very important. I'm looking into buying him some RenewPro why protein. (Immunocal)

    Also sounds like Biotin might be a good bet for him, along with C and E ... Selenium and Alpha-Lipoic acid. Tart cherry juice sounds interesting also. And I did see everything you listed Raging. . .. it's just that I don't have the money for everything, and we do all ready have some of them.

    If ONLY he could just get a bit of relief from the AD ... soon, then I would feel safe having him go home, and I could recuperate. Keep us in your prayers .. and if there's anything else you can think of .. please let me know.

    Hugs!
     
  8. bumblebee

    bumblebee New Member

    This Thread is great...

    This is my second bout of depression/anxiety and insomnia. I got over my first bout 6 years ago with SJW, and lots of exercise. This time round though...I feel its just not really happening.

    My symtoms are not so much agorophobia or lethargy, but the opposite...I need to be outside all the time, very restless and pacing.

    Thinking of 5 htp as an option to try that might work.

    Just a question for Quest if she is still checking this thread--

    You say you take 25mg, did you take it with any meals or on a empty stomach?

    What time of the day did you take it?

    Thanks
     
  9. Quest

    Quest Regular Member

    Hi there, Im still around and do check in. Sorry to hear about the bit of relapse. I took 25mg after breakfast when I took it daily. But since I dont need it daily anymore .. if I need a boost or a day when Im just feeling off I tend to take it around 11am or noon (between breakfast and lunch) Since mine are enteric coated Im sure that helps as my stomach does not get upset from this. If you are feeling agitated or pacing...I was....25mg is probably a good testing point. Hugs
     
  10. bumblebee

    bumblebee New Member


    Thanks Quest. BTW I think its wonderful that after all this time, you still follow up on the thread to let others know the effectiveness or non effectiveness of your experience.

    I actually have tried 5 HTP (100mg capsule) once at night a few weeks ago hoping to get over my insomnia, but it didn't really help me sleep or anything...the next morning had a stomace ache as well. Wasn't good.

    After reading your thread, I think that a lower dose(25 mg) might be a better start point, and I will try as you had done before and take it mid morning maybe. Hopefully will stop the usual morning/noon feelings of dread, despair, anxiety etc etc.

    I am currently on 2 x SJW a day though...not sure if I should stop or just lower to 1 pill, before taking the 5 htp. But then...this time the SJW doesn't seem to be kicking in as much...although it seems to have helped a little with my insomnia.

    Were you on SJW before 5 htp? How long did you stop SJW before commencing taking 5HTP?
     
  11. Quest

    Quest Regular Member

    I tried St Johns Wort for one day LOL...not really a fair trial. But I was so anxious and jittery that it seemed to make it worse. But again, I doubt it did..it was my own anxiety and impatience spinning out and making me even more depressed with agitation. I just did not give it a fair shot because I was so desperate for something that might work "now"
    When I took the HTP I so clearly remember thinking "ah, this wont work"..I was in my house and pacing. Twenty minutes later I was walking outside and smiling..I was in disbelief. I really did not think the HTP would work. My worst feelings of anxiety/agitation/blues would tend to hit around 11am, early afternoon. Thats when they still do if I get into a low serotonin cycle.
    Im not a strong believer in mixing supplements...at least not at first. With a mix one cannot tell if its the mix that works or one pill over the other. Same with side effects. Some combos cause them. For me, I went with one thing alone. I could add later if needed.
    Im glad to come back here and check on the thread. When I was desperate I scoured forums looking for answers or friends that might understand. People would come and go and then not report back in after "feeling wonderful" It made me wonder if it ever lasted...if it could be possible. So I post here as proof that it IS possible. Not everybody has the same result because of various brain chemistry...but in my case...the HTP works. I am serotonin deficient and if anyone else is it may help them too.:roll:
     
  12. bumblebee

    bumblebee New Member

    I had ordered the Natural factors 50mg caplet, should arrive soon I think.

    Once its in, I'll try to split it to 25mg and give it a shot.

    I'm still a bit confused as to whether its best to take in the morning with meal, or immed B4 meal or immed after meal, or 2 hours after meal on an empty stomach. Can you or anyone else suggest?

    I'm kind of afraid of any possible nausea and stomach cramps feeling as well (I know..scaredy cat)

    I believe you are right in that mixing SJW and 5HTP will only confuse the issue of what works best, and I'll probably wean off SJW over a few days B4 trying the 5 HTP, - I have given SJW a try this time round for over a month or so now. It hasn't really helped as much as I would like. Not sure how long a gap is required to clear SJW out of the system though.

    I'll try to keep updated on this as well...for anyone else who might want to try to heal their depression anxiety.
     
  13. Quest

    Quest Regular Member

    I have always had a nervous stomach. Which is why I keep Ginger capsules in case anyone gets the flu or tummy troubles...just plain nausea etc. I take the htp after I eat..this way the food is all settled in, plus the enteric coating helps stop it from dissolving too soon so Ive never had that trouble anyway.
    If you are worried, get some ginger capsules 500mg. People take it for dizziness, motion sickness, and even arthritis too! Its not something you have to take daily..its just good to have in the cupboard..just like Tylenol or Tums.
     
  14. bumblebee

    bumblebee New Member

    The 5 HTP came in yesterday, and I broke a 50 mg pill into half and took it right after lunch. I had also taken 1 x SJW already that morning though.

    I must confess I don't know if it worked, but if it did, it was very subtle. No real side effects that I could feel, although the next day (today) I did notice mild stomach cramping.

    This morning skipped my morning dose of SJW, and instead took another 25mgs of 5HTP (half pill) again after lunch. This time did notice a warm fuzzy/buzzy feeling about an hour after. Felt sleepy too. All this just as I was at a Naturopath appointment.

    It did seem to relieve some anxiety, and possibly depressive thoughts/feelings, but also began to note the stomach cramping again. I've realised that the pills although are enteric coated, obviously lose that once I split them in half. Not sure what the best thing to do for tomorrow...take a whole 50mg pill?

    If Quest or anyone can assist as well, any reactions regarding stomach/abdominal pains? Did you also have any effects with regards to appetite? Reason is I've actually lost a substantial amount of wieght since I got this anxiety/depression, and am in fact trying to gain back some weight before I start looking anorexic. Have heard 5 HTP suppresses appetite?

    BTW, the naturopath gave me some pills called preGABA? They are actually precursors to GABA, contains glutamine (600mg) Taurine, b6 and zinc. Supposed to calm me. Anyone have any experience with this vs Gaba itself?
     
  15. Quest

    Quest Regular Member

    Ive seen this question arise before...the whole splitting the pill vs. enteric coating. The answer given was it still helps protect the stomach lining better than if it were not coated. Given that I have taken both types (enteric AND non enteric) and have split them....I have not had a problem with the enteric coated. You could make sure you have eaten AND take a Ginger capsule if it worries you. Sometimes also, when we are nervous trying new things..our aches and pains intensify because of the anxiety alone and not necessarily the supplement. I wouldnt jump to 50mg this quick if you are not sure this is causing you tummy issues. If it is, more will only bother you. Again, Im a BIG fan of Ginger. As far as Gaba...eh you will find a whole band of people talking about it not crossing the blood-brain barrier and that it is useless...yet others who take it and would swear the opposite. Natural factors has a new Pharma Gaba which they say is superior. Personally, I have taken Nows brand of Gaba (True Calm) with taurine, magnesium etc. and I did find it helpful. These things are indeed subtle though...not anything like popping a Xanax. It takes patience and a willingness to let the supplements work. Gaba is for calming, increasing gaba...while HTP increases serotonin. I have taken them both together in the past but found I only needed the htp. It is good that you have advice from a naturopath that you saw. Seeing one in person is best as someone online cannot really observe your symptoms or go over a complete questionairre with you. As for the weight...well..if I am depressed..I eat. If i am anxious I can't. The HTP makes me feel normal so I find that I eat but do not tend to have the need to drag out the cookies and junk food. I lose weight because I stop eating the junk, not because I have lost my appetite. But this is my own observation.
     
  16. bumblebee

    bumblebee New Member

    Thanks for your response on that Quest.

    Yes, the stomach cramping could be partly due to me actually looking for the symptom, if you know what I mean. It is only mildly uncomfortable. Will persist with 25mgs, and after lunch. The ginger pill can only help with nausea though isn't it, not the stomach cramping feeling?

    Don't know about this preGABA glutamine pill I'm supposed to take as well, cos its not exactly GABA, its a precursor. I've heard people taking GABA to help sleep, dunno if anyone has taken glutamine/taurine for sleep?

    Will try anyways...already paid for it:smile:

    Isn't depression and its associated indecisiveness great?
     
  17. Quest

    Quest Regular Member

    The Ginger helps with any sort of stomach distress, not just nausea. Some people take peppermint instead, but I find the Ginger to work better for me. Let us know how you feel.:smile:
     
  18. bumblebee

    bumblebee New Member

    I stopped 5 htp for a couple of days as I had to try this L-glutamine supplement together with 2 doses of SJW a day prescribed by the naturopath. I don't think the L-glutamine helped...seemed to make me more anxious I think, and the first night was even more difficult to get to sleep.

    I was also still suffering stomach cramps even 1 day later after the last dose of 5 HTP as well anyway, so I thought, give it a break.

    Anyway, stopped the Glutamine today cos I really didn't feel confortable with it, and took 12mgs this time of 5 htp after lunch, along with AM dose of SJW. No stomach cramps so far (its been 6 hours), but also no real effect that I can feel..sigh. I will carry on with 12mgs again tomorrow. Read somewhere at Ray Sahelian website I think sometimes a low dose of 10 -50 mgs is sufficient, so I think I will experiment around this dosage range and slowly increase. Not sure if the effects might be negated because I take it right after lunch...anyone with any ideas?

    Went for a jog/run before dinner (I do this almost every day since I gotten this depression), and felt pretty Ok immed right after the exercise...but then the depressed sinking feelings, racing thoughts, anxiety came back soon after...really bad in fact. Mind felt like it was gonna explode again, just could not rest.

    Don't know what else to try after this if this doesn't work in the next week, I gotta admit. I wish I could know for certain that what I've got is a serotonin problem, I'm just guessing at the moment. I've done SJW over 2 months now, fish oil, b complex, magnesium/calcium supplements, loads of exercise, and now 5 htp a few days in...

    Does anyone have any feedback regards to best ways to ascertain the problem neurotransmitters?

    PharmaGABA sounds like another option to try I suppose. Supposed to have a calming effect? And L-Theanine? I don't think SAMe is suitable for me, as it appears to be more for lethargic type depression from the forums i've read. Mine is totally restless, hyper, anxious agitated/obsessive depression with insomnia. I know quest has tried SAMe before..any thoughts?
     
  19. Quest

    Quest Regular Member

    Somewhere up a small bit in this thread is a website I posted that sends testing kits to the doctors so you can actually see what you are deficient in. Most insurances do cover it. Id look it up but its packed away in my notes again... and Im on my way out. Scroll up a bit through the last months messages and you will find it. If not message me and Ill look it up later for you
     
  20. bumblebee

    bumblebee New Member

    I have switched to 500 mg L-tryptophan instead of 5 HTP. I take it at about 4 pm. Less stomach upset. The 500mg is supposed to be equivalent to 50 mg 5 HTP.

    So far, I believe there has been a positive result...I seem to be a lot calmer in the night, but then its hard to confirm since my worse periods in terms of agitated anxiety and depression are usually right between 11 am/ noon to 3.30 pm.

    I suppose the next step is to try to take it at 11am instead

    I still take 2 Kira SJW a day though (breakfast and dinner), along with the usual fish oil, b complex, vit C (500mg) and a multivit every other day.

    Sleep is still an issue though...tried a melatonin a week ago, and it helped me sleep, but then the web is full of articles about taking melatonin being bad for depression? Sigh....I figure when in doubt...do nothing.
    Maybe the way forward now is to take 1 x 500 mg tryptophan around noon, then 2 x at bedtime?

    Has anyone had a positive experience with 5htp or tryptophan for sleep?
     

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